Last year as a part of our homeschooling, we used the Classical Conversations curriculum and attended a weekly community, where I also tutored. This curriculum has taken off, and it seems as if everyone in homeschooling circles is talking about it. We have chosen not to attend the community next year, so people want to know if I didn’t like it and whether I would recommend it.
We really loved the curriculum. My kids learned so much. Even though we will not be involved in a community next year, we will still be using it at home.
I tutored (taught a class) this last year. I absolutely loved being in the classroom again. I taught high school Spanish before we had children and have always missed classroom teaching. I adored my students and honestly think I had more fun than they did.
That said, the position was very stressful for me. I expected it to be very stressful at first, but quite frankly, I woke up with an upset stomach and took many trips to the bathroom each morning before my weekly class, down to the very last day of the year.
Why was it so stressful? For one thing, I think being a classroom teacher worked against me here. The communities are set up so that parents are sitting in each class, so there is always a parent observing. I don’t remember any parent being unkind, yet for me it was always stressful knowing someone would be observing, but never knowing exactly who. It just made me very nervous.
Time was another factor. Though I loved the community benefits for my children, I had been used to having complete freedom with my time as a home schooling mom. For example, if we had company staying with us, I could always take a holiday, or if the kids were sick, we would just take a sick day. Also, we enjoyed taking our vacations while other children were in school such as a week over Labor Day. I missed not having that flexibility.
When it came to preparation, time was also a factor. I spent over two hours each week preparing for two-and -a-half hours of instruction. This was so much more than I spent preparing to teach my own children that at times I felt guilty.
Now, having said all this, I still think Classical Conversations is a wonderful program and well worth the stress and time constraints. However, we are expecting another child in December, and after experiencing a miscarriage last November, we thought it best for our family to keep stress to a minimum where possible this year. I am going to continue tutoring my kids at home. My plan is to have a little class once a week. We may love it and continue doing this, or we may decide after this next year to get back into a community. The jury is still out!
Update: Our first year of Classical Conversations at home.
I’m linked to Works for Me Wednesday and Hip Homeschool Hop.
You’ve been through a lot. I don’t blame you for not participating. Don’t add the stress if you don’t have to… life has enough of that already.
~ Mona
We did six years of Classical Conversations, and I am thankful for each one. But we won’t be going back this year either, not because there’s anything wrong with CC. My son’s communication disorder and Challenge 1 just didn’t line up for us this coming year. He’ll stay home — probably get quite bored without the community — and focus on those communication skills. (writing writing writing)
The beauty of homeschooling is that we have the option to modify as family needs change. I’m sure God will honor your decision!!!! And bless your school year
Sorry it was so stressful. Sounds like a year off is just what you need!
I think with the pregnancy and the new baby doing your own thing will probably be the least stressful thing for you guys! I wish you all the best with the everything this year!
I totally support your putting your family first, Esther. You’ll have plenty of time later on, after the kiddos are grown, to pursue teaching, or whatever else your heart desires.
I dabbled in this curriculum, and found some of it fun and beneficial. There wasn’t a community formed around us when I was using it, but I found it hard to balance commitments outside of our home when homeschooling altogether, and like you, enjoyed our own schedule. The negative that I would point out about CC is that it is attached to a group within the homeschool community that is very passionate about the methodology…which can be a good thing if you are skilled in academics and find that is best for you and your child and are thankful for it…but, I’ve also heard it said within those same circles that this methodology is “Biblical” and label it as “Christian”…and that is false and can add alot of pressure and expectations where God absolutely doesn’t require or expect any such thing.
Question, do you have to buy special books to participate? I already own my curriculum (well trained mind-saxon, abeka, bfsu) for next year but there is a group starting up nearby.
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I am so glad to hear that I am not the only one who has knots in her stomach every week! I tutor both the Foundations and Essentials and it has been beyond stressful. My own daughter has been neglected and I have realized that this is just not for us. We do much better with a relaxed approach, which is NOT what CC is. I am grateful for it, though, and have learned much in the past two years. We will not, however, be returning, and I honestly am fighting working through these last six weeks. My heart is just not in it.
Thank you for your honesty.
Thanks you for this blog post. I am a mother of a 5 year old who is seriously considering CC and I have a friend who tutors the foundations group her daughter is a part of. My husband and I are currently praying about whether or not we are going to try it out next year so I’m excited to read any press about the program. I’ve taught Sunday School while parents watch so I know it can be a bit nerve racking even though you know exactly what you are teaching. I hope this year has been a blessing to you.
Thanks again,
A Wannabe HS mom.
Great review Esther!
[...] Conversations at Home By EstherIrish, on July 24th, 2012 After completing a year at a Classical Conversations Community, I decided to use the curriculum on my own last year. I had several reasons, but at the top of my [...]
Thank you for this post. There is a thriving, growing CC in my area, and I have been pressured by many friends to join in. I almost feel like an outsider because I am not doing the “IN THING”. It’s actually been very saddening, witnessing many who are believers in Jesus Christ behaving with an air of superiority about educating their kids. I visited a couple of times, and my financial circumstances are such that I would have to tutor to be able to afford CC for 3 kids. I have a PhD and taught on the college level, so I am not afraid of tutoring, but I have been a stay-at-home homeschooling mom now for a while, and my biggest concern was the one you mentioned of losing “complete freedom of my time” and spending hours preparing to teach other people’s children when I actually have to spend very little time preparing to teach my own children! Your blog post confirmed what I suspected I would experience, so thank you for your honesty. BTW… these concerns were not my only ones with the program. I read Leigh Bortins’ book, The Core, and found that I just had some fundamental disagreements with her. She is the author of the curriculum, so it is worth reading this book before you join. You will be buying her worldview and feeding it to your kids, so you need to make sure you agree with it first. This goes for ANY curriculum we buy as homeschooling parents!
“I’ve also heard it said within those same circles that this methodology is “Biblical” and label it as “Christian”…and that is false and can add alot of pressure and expectations where God absolutely doesn’t require or expect any such thing.”
Yes! We are beginning our second year of CC (my daughter is 5), and we love the folks in our community. However, I had a horrible experience at training (I had to train because I said I’d sub this year) where a bunch of ladies jumped on a poor woman for saying her husband might have her oldest son attend traditional school. Another lady started crying because her husband isn’t completely on board. I was a wuss and I didn’t say anything, but I was so upset by the way these women were treating their sisters in Christ (especially the teacher of the class, who basically said you were sinning and being unfaithful if you don’t home school).
I believe classical education is best, but I understand it’s not always possible. Every family is different. I felt so bad for those poor women feeling guilty, and wanted to stand up and say, “Your husbands love your kids and want what’s best for them. Leigh Bortins does not love your kids–or know your kids–the way you and your husband do. She is running a business.” Jesus Christ did not die on the cross so we can be classically educated, and thereby attain “wisdom, knowledge, understanding” (by connecting this Proverbs 24 reference to grammar, dialect, rhetoric, CC basically communicates that not using these stages is forsaking biblical principals and mandates, which is not true.)
I don’t have a problem with them advertising the superiority of the classical method; I have a problem with them making a New Law.
I taught Challenge A for a year, Challenge I Latin for a year, and Foundations for a year, and I love my community. But–speaking as someone who was home schooled through high school and volunteered/interned for 6-7 years at a think tank that heavily promoted classical education–Classical Conversations is not the be-all end-all. On their website they say “Our purpose is to lead the home-centered education movement,” and it seems they really are trying to create a monopoly.
Anyway, I hope this is not too negative. It is a good service for families who can afford to use it, and the quality of their products is slowly matching the price(when I started in 2009 the errors and dependence on tutors to notice inconsistencies was embarrassing. A fellow tutor found outright plagiarism). I believe the company hired a marketing agency which gave them some unfortunate advice for how to make their company grow fast (too fast), and they depend on “soft multi-level marketing” to grow (moms and tutors putting in the grunt work to create new communities and spread the word for barely any money, at their families’ expense).
I, too, got out of tutoring because of the time involved to tutor well (and the expectations of what you should do by other tutors and parents heavily involved). Anna above has some wise words about a company’s worldview. When learning about classical education, please look at other more established companies, or those affiliated with people who might know more about classical education than Leigh (Memoria Press, Veritas Press, Wittenberg Academy, any number of independent classical schools)
PS Your children are beautiful, and congratulations on your new little one! My husband and I are expecting #5 in April
Katy,
Thanks so much for your insight. We just started my four-yr-old in Classical and now I regret it after the first class. Stupid me didn’t observe any classes last year before deciding to join this ridiculous program. It is just so hard as a homeschool to find quality socialization for children… I was hoping this would give our daughter a chance to learn with, laugh with, and grow with peers. After the first class I was horrified upon hearing the “lists” of unrelated facts that she is expected to memorize. THere was no socialization, only memorization. While I see nothing wrong with teaching my child to memorize information, the implication is that at her age she is not able to comprehend anything at a deeper level so she ought to be quiet and submit to “drill, drill, drill” of boring, irrelevant fact lists. It is evident that the creator of this curriculum knows nothing about how knowledge is best retained – by connecting new knowledge to previously learned knowledge. Classical would be greatly improved if it cut the memorization down by half each week (and eliminated the useless Latin) and instead added real life connections that would make the information palpable and comprehendable to even little children. For instance, we memorized the beginning of the time line: “Creation and the fall of man” followed by “The flood and the Tower of Babel.” Why not stop there and read a picture book (or the Bible) and explain these events to children? The children will quickly be able to make a connection to the information being memorized. I definitely agree with Katy that there is a strange “religious pride” in the writings of Leigh Borton on the website – as if Classical is the best and only godly way to educate a child. There is a strange sense of pressure and stress on the teachers, the parents, and the children to “learn more, learn more, learn more.” Quantity is not the same as quality. Our children can memorize complex information but if they fail to learn how to connect with God and with others in meaningful relationships, it will all be for naught!
[...] meal. If you’re looking for something new to feed your kiddos, you should give it a try! 2. Classical Conversations Community Review–This curriculum has really taken off in the last few years. It seems like every time I turn [...]
CC has the kids memorize facts. It is the PARENTS job to suppliment this info at home. The tutors have 3o minutes to get the info into the kids heads. You as the parent actually have the job to tell them about those facts. All the historical info is given to you on the timeline cards. Gee, you actually have to read those to your kids or have them read them to you. Not so tough. I am a mother of 3 and a tutor for CC. VERY DOABLE. The best thing for our family ever! Accountability is a blessing. We still take vacations when we want. Give me a break.
Thank you very much for writing this post! We are scheduled to attend a CC Open House in the next few weeks but I’ve been 50/50 about the curriculum/schedule, etc. for my children. This honest review and the comments have really been helpful as we make our decision, thank you!
Best,
Sarah
I have been research CC all morning. Heather North, you attitude towards others who truly are trying to find whats best for their family unit, is truly unfortunate. You do not further the “brand” of CC by talking to people with such a demeaning tone. Its definitely not to CCs credit to have its participants speaking rudely to other home schoolers. Just lay out the FACTS and TRY to demonstrate what your child is learning through your own speech and behavior, a certain level of diplomacy if you will. For anyone else reading these, my family uses Abeka (3rd grade) and we video stream. The cost is high at 750.00 per year for my student, but my younger child (age 5) can participate in classes such as Bible and Science. In fact my son at age 3 memorized John 14:1-6 by watching Bible class with his sissy each morning. It was amazing. I will be [raying about joining CC, and plan to attend one of their weekly classes to get a better idea. I am very happy with Abeka but the idea of community and being around other “like-minded” parents and kids is appealing for me. We are in the country so it would be a lot of driving and it makes me nervous to take my child out of a curriculum that is top notch such as Abeka. I just dont know…
God Bless you moms who want to give their children a great at home education! Im proud of all of you!! Keep your chin up and pray!
We did CC this year and at first I thought it was great but have decided not to go back next year for some of the same reasons others have mentioned. It boils down to rote memorization, which imo is not the most effective way for children to learn. I think if a parent is looking for something similar to a public school curriculum, CC is very comprehensive as a guide you could use to supplement in a way that works best for your family. Our community had to do weekly family presentations in front of the whole group as well as the children doing them in class. If I had known that was expected ahead of time I would not have signed up. Our community leader also encouraged the kids to memorize Bible versus with a system of rewards, which made me uncomfortable. If a child/family is interested in reading the Bible, that’s great, but this felt to me like bribery. I know the leader was doing what she felt was right and I do respect her, it just wasn’t personally my cup of tea.
This was our first year at CC and we love the community aspect of it and are doing it next year for that and to try a year of Challenge. That said, it is not a perfect program. We take Foundations as just memory work and it is completely outside of our regular curriculum as I feel it rushes kids through some subjects ideas. I am enjoying how much the kids are learning and it is also rewarding to see them make connections when the memory work comes up in our regular curriculums. I believe in the memorization in the elementary level now when I did not at first simply because I have seen it play out in my own kids. They now pay closer attention to shows and other things because they have heard the terms before. When an area comes up on the news many times now they have heard the term so they focus in more. Same with the names they learn through the history sentences and other memorization. That said, I do agree that it is not for everyone. I don’t know that we will do it all the way through and I don’t believe I will ever serve as a tutor but for now it is working.
Makes perfect sense to me! I also love the freedom of scheduling that homeschooling allows. Having parents observe would make me nervous, too. Great review.
I have been a tutor for three years and have thoroughly enjoyed CC. There is truth in what Katy shared. If you are not familiar with the classical method of learning, CC might seems like a useless method of rote memorization and useless Latin. If a person is really interested in getting involved iN CC for socialization I suggest you read The Well Trained Mind to make the most of your money and not pay the cost of a classical supplement just to socialize. As a tutor, I have seen way too many families get in and stay involved for social reasons. I would not suggest that. The Classical method is wonderful and will help prepare your children for a very rigorous high school career. Don’t be too near sighted when joining this program….look long-range because everything they learn thru memorization at a young age will be used later, ie Latin.
Now, my own personal opinion is that the corporation of CC is just that, a corporation, a business. It is a supplemental program NOT a school system. There is an overall feel of top-down management and corporate rhetoric that takes place amongst those in positions of management. It is my experience that the business end of this wonderful program needs to get a grasp on the fact that if people were not purchasing their product there would be no program. And that the mney people are paying is what makes them a paycheck. Unfortunately because of this mentality I will not be returning to tutor or to send my children in the coming year. I am not spending valuable money and time to be part of a school system. I already pay taxes to a system where my voice does not count.
This was our family’s first year with CC and I am undecided about returning. I had children in Foundations and the Challenge program and can see the long term benefits of the memorization for the Challenge children. However, as some reviews state the tutors make all the difference. Unfortunately, all fees are paid prior to knowing who your director will place your child with. It does fall on the parents to expound/review the information if they so choose because it is not revisited again that entire year. For our family the community came in during lunch because time was used during class. My community had strong leaders and parents, but I think children in 3rd-6th would benefit most and could utilize the Essentials program. At 4-5 years a parent can better use their time onthe fundamentals and save the money and time commitment. Challenge A we loved because of the accountabilty and the gradual transition from what would have been Foundations. Challenge I was good, but could improve their weekly expectations for debate and the tutor could provide models for writing assignments. Challenge IS expensive (think $1500(reg. lab, supply, tuition, facility) and then the cost of books. Unfortunately, as a Challenge tutot they are not required to give parents feedback, so you really have no idea how your student is faring in a group setting(especially if you have to be in class with a child in Foundations/Essentials). I know as a parent I have to inspect, but if I am teaching and grading at home $1500 is alot for a syllabus and group discussion. If you are interested in a Challenge program make sure to visit the tutor who will be teaching your child because like in school there are good and bad teachers and most mony paid is non-refundable.